The words Asktransgender commenters don’t want teens to see

Several times on this blog, we have seen how young teenagers who are confused about their identities get advice from adults on places like reddit.

Often they get advice that is very inappropriate, like advice on how to obtain prescription medications illegally, or advice on how to hide said medications from parents. They are urged to do this as soon as possible. It can take only weeks for a teen to go from confused about their identity to feeling like they absolutely need these hormones. Sometimes adults suggest completely inappropriate courses of action like in this post where a 42 year old offers a teen to come to his house and get “shots”.

Today we are going to take a brief look at what kind of advice is not allowed on online transgender forums. A 14 year old posts in AskTransgender, asking “Is this real?”

Hey guys, So, currently I identify as MtF. However, I keep thinking that I may not actually be, or that I am exaggerating, or that I simply want to be, so to not be “common”, or to be special/unique. I know it sounds silly, but I have OCPD, so these thoughts are constant 24/7, and I get very worried that I may not be trans. When I see a pretty girl, I wish I could look like her, not just be with her, and ever since I was a kid, I would often play online as a girl, and would Identify well with the character (not sure if relevant). It is getting annoying. I am 14 years old, and I don’t think I can get to a gender therapist soon. I don’t know what to do or think, as I have exaggerated “symptoms” before, and I also think I am a hypocondriac (not saying trans is an illness) which has lead me to believe I am gravely sick before, even though I am not, and I worry that this is what my mind is doing to me, any help?

There is a removed comment:

Deleted comment with replies

What did the deleted comment say? Must have been pretty bad, judging by the aggressive reactions, right? Luckily, since one of the replies mentions the username who made the deleted comment, it’s possible to find out. Clicking on the username of “pyre105” reveals the following comment:

“Allow yourself to grow up as who you are”

So that was the comment, downvoted by other posters to -1, and then deleted. “Allow yourself to grow up as you are, away from labels and expectations. There’s really minimal difference between boys and girls in terms of personality, behavior, things we like, etc. Identifying with a girl character doesn’t make you a girl.”

These words  were so offensive that the  other commenters tell the author to “get the HELL away”, and that what they are doing is harmful, and then the comment is deleted. These are the words the posters on AskTransgender do not want 14 year old kids to read.

Meanwhile, comments urging them to obtain medications illegally, hide them from their parents, and go to the houses of 42 year old men, are not deleted. Food for thought for parents whose children are questioning their identities. Be extremely skeptical of the advice they are getting online.

Questioning teens and social contagion

Young people who for some reason feel dissatisfied with their sex often go to reddit’s various transgender communities to ask for advice.

A 14 year old kid asks for advice on two different subreddits about how to talk to family members about gender issues and about medications like estrogen.

On one of the posts, an adult invites the 14 year old to take contact privately.

In the other post, concrete advice about how to obtain prescription medication illegally is given, complete with dosages:

Or how about this 13 year old, who writes:

Hello all, I’m thirteen today (yay!), and I’m kinda confused about my gender.

For my entire life, I’ve been happy with being a guy. I knew I didn’t fit in with other boys however, and surrounded myself with girls as my friends. I’m rather feminine, you can blame my sisters for that.

So, just turned 13, and is feminine boy.

About a year ago, thoughts passed through my head such as “if only I was a girl”. These thoughts were rare and I pushed them aside, not thinking anything of them. Roughly six months ago, I joined an online forum. I noticed that more than a few people were transgender. I knew what the term was before this, but, again, I didn’t think anything of it.

This story sounds familiar to anyone who’s been paying attention to the stories many newly trans teenagers post online. An intense period of bingeing on social media accounts of being trans leading to the teen suddenly identifying as trans themselves.

Two months ago, I started thinking about this. What if I was female? I liked the idea of it. I changed my gender on a few sites to female. One month ago, I started really reading up on it. I was a bit obsessed for one night, then I stopped thinking about it. Because I stopped thinking about it, I dismissed it again. Even though I thought I stopped thinking about it, three weeks ago I came out to my boyfriend, and then one week ago, my sister. They both took it very well. Last night, I was thinking and reading up on this like crazy, I was obsessed. I saw that most people realised at a young age, and so I thought I must be doing this for attention, or forcing myself to think this, or it might just be a phase which will go away.

What is the consensus in asktransgender?

You’re transgender.

If you think, “I want to be a girl” at all then you are probably trans

Or this 14 year old, who asks for advice about feeling like a trans boy

I apologize in advance but I am desperate for insight and am feeling hopeless!! I’ve been considering if I’m a trans boy for the past two months (thinking about gender for almost a year) I am 14 and hopefully any of you can help.

It all started with my best friend and I talking about our characters (we dream of writing a series one day together haha) and I proposed if one of my characters was transgender and while exploring the character it was as if they way i saw them changed, that they were happier in the end and it was as if I was supposed to create them as a trans character to begin with (it’s strange and probably hard to understand)

After this I became uneasy, like something had shifted and when I asked my friends about my feelings they said maybe physiologically I identified as that character and was actually trans myself. This at first seemed unreal but also made sense in a away.

I have a obsessive personality and continued to research the hell out of the Internet, watched hours of youtube videos and began looking back at my self as I grew up. It seemed I was okay with being a girl as a child nothing really struck me as typical trans story of knowing at a young age(not trying to invalidate other people’s transitions whatsoever) but as a child I often enjoyed portraying the boys in pretend, years even. When I started puberty I became very insecure about my body (breasts and starting my period) I was always humiliated when people brought things even if it was my mom and it was just us. It seems I tolerate being a girl but I know I’m something other than that. Now more than ever I think about my gender for hours at a time, during school, while bathing and before I go to bed. I seem to be more comfy able with male clothes. 

It’s again a similar story. Being obsessed with transition videos on YouTube. Feeling uncomfortable during puberty. Feeling more comfortable in “male” clothes.

Not a single person who replies to this child mentions that most of the experiences being described are 100% normal and common. Which young woman has not felt embarrassed about getting breasts and a period? Nobody tells this child that which clothes you wear don’t make you a man or a woman.

The poster goes on to post again a month later, still confused:

Need some insight. I’ve been wondering about my gender for a year questioning If I’m trans for 3 months and have been in gender limbo since. I’m a indecisive, awkward and sensitive person which I believe relates to the fact I can’t make a decision on who I am. I believe being on t would make me happy but I’m terrified of loosing hair and being overly hairy, im uncomfortable with my chest and hips as well. Im not very masuline but neither am i feminine, it’s hard for me to imagine myself as a woman in the future but a man just seems like a far off dream. I can’t seem to imagine myself with anyone or having children and I believe that may relate to my gender issues. I feel like a fake and a phony and am terrified of realizing this is a phase. I’m only 14 but I’ve been obsessively researched everything (hours and hours, while in bed, sitting in bath, during class) and am in this exhausting gray area where everything is awful and just ‘exploring’ my identity isn’t an option. Am I maybe in denial or just confused ? (I understand people can’t tell me exactly who I am but still) Please any advice would be lovely.

And of course, gets this answer:

You’re textbook Trans

It turns out that this poster has no less than three friends who have also recently come to identify as transgender:

Teenagers have always been struggling to fit in, to figure out who they are, to label themselves. But it’s not until now that discovering your true self involves taking hormones and getting surgery. And it’s not until now that questioning whether it is wise for teens to be getting medication advice online is bigoted.

 

 

“I hide my meds in my saxophone case” – self medding advice to minors

On reddit, a website where kids as young as 13 are allowed, and many are even younger, anonymous people, often adults, give minors tips on how to obtain prescription-only medication illegally, and hide it from their parents.

In this post, a 15 year old asks for advice, saying that “I have came out to my mom and she does not support me and thinks I should just stay how I was born.”

“estradiol is pretty cheap”

“Estradiol is pretty cheap,” chimes in a 44 year old adult, and provides a link to various online pharmacies where this medication can be bought. Estradiol is a medication that can increase your risk of blood clots, stroke, or heart attack, especially if you have diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol or triglycerides, if you smoke, or if you are overweight. It is also recommended to get blood tests and physical check-ups while taking this medication, none of which a 15 year old would necessarily have access to.

In this post, reddit users are giving tips to minors on how to hide from their parents that they are taking DIY hormones (“do it yourself”, meaning without a prescription) (archived post)

tips for minors who wish to take prescription medications behind their parents’ backs

The advice comes complete with dosage advice.

In this post, a 16 year old is uncertain about starting hormones:

I am 16 and not getting any younger. I would rather get hormones sooner than later if I’m going to get them at all, and I don’t feel equipped to make that decision at 16. However, I am worried that I won’t be able to make the decision until post-puberty, which would be disadvantageous.

What is the way out of this dilemma?

One of the replies is this:

“Why would you not be equipped to make that decision at 16?” this poster asks, and continues:

“It’s almost completely certain you won’t regret it”

Another poster chimes in:

“you’ll pass worse”

Finally, the poster is convinced:

“I’m going to go bother some people about AAs”

The commenters have successfully convinced this young teen to get anti-androgens. The most common one is spirolactone, which can have side effects like  uneven heart rate, severe skin reactions, numbness, muscle weakness, vomiting, shallow breathing and confusion.

A magical pill to bypass suffering: how teens are persuaded to start transition

As ever on  reddit communities for transgendered people, young teens uncertain about themselves post, and these young teens are overwhelmingly told to start taking hormones in order to try to make their bodies resemble the oppsisite sex.

A 14 year old boy posts: “I think that I might be trans and am unsure about what to do and I need some advice.” There are two replies, none of which try to get this child to reflect on what he means by “being male”, or why he might be uncomfortable with puberty.

“Your body is in prime shape for transition”

No, instead they tell him that his body is in prime shape for transition! Implied of course, that it will not stay in prime shape forever. The commenter also assures the child that since he has been uneasy with the start of puberty, he will surely keep being uncomfortable with it. As if being weirded out with the start of puberty is some sign of illness, instead of being a completely normal experience.

In this post, a 15 year old child is told exactly how to obtain hormones without a prescription, including dosages. This commenter advices the kid to get prescribed the medications he wants under false pretenses. (Archive link for the entire post)

“High blood pressure”

Another 15 year old wants to know how to go behind his parents’ backs and obtain prescription medications illegally.

Today my parents said some things that make me unable to come out to them. The problem is Im 15 and need thier consent for treatment.

How can I get hrt without my parents consent. I know diy is dangerous, but it isn’t a choice. It’s something I need to do. The thoughts of how I’m getting more masculine each day are eating me away on the inside.

So whats the safest way to diy. Also what dosege should I use.

Some of the replies:

“Get on hormones now”

“DIY is almost harmless”

More advice on how to obtain medications illegally

“Pressure your mother by telling her how hard your life will be”

If you wait, you will lose thousands of dollars, your life will be stressful and you will have a hard time finding love

Calling hormones “magical pills”

Yet another 15 year old, asking what the appropriate age to start hormones is. And the replies:

Another teen, this time a 17 year old, posts.

Is waiting six months going to harm my transition in any significant way, or is it a good decision to just wait half a year?

And there are plenty of replies urging him to start as soon as possible.

Even though there are a few voices of dissent, the majority of the replies to these young teens tell them that they should look into hormones, and it is not difficult to get very concrete advice on how to obtain them, often illegally. Very rarely do the commenters talk about other possible explanations for the feelings these teens have.

Another young person, this one in her early twenties, asks for advice here.

I first came out in 2011 but being ‘trans’ still seems surreal to me. As a child I was mostly indifferent to gender and don’t think I understood it well, I climbed trees, played with chemistry sets and built things. The feelings began roughly after puberty, around 13, when I began developing breasts, hips and a menstrual cycle. It was at this point I was diagnosed with major depression and put on Prozac. I immediately noticed that the menstrual cycle felt un natural and it still does. I felt very uncomfortable having breasts and wore clothing to conceal them and my hips. I starved myself so that my figure was more boyish. I was jealous of guys, thinking I would feel so much happier in that body. Looking at my face, I felt extremely ugly. I felt like a dude in makeup with a face that was neither quite male or female. I also have no ‘maternal instinct’ whatsoever. I find babies sort of cute, but that’s it. I have no drive to reproduce.

(…)

My teenage years were depressing, mostly due to my distraction with my physical appearance and illness. I avoided mirrors like the plague. I also disliked my name because it’s super feminine, but feel better when people use the short form (which is masculine). I feel much more comfortable wearing clothes for men and not wearing makeup. In 2011 my GP dx’d me with GD but I still ask myself if I really am trans and I feel scared of what I’m going to do to myself. When I imagine my face and body looking masculine, I feel happier about it, and more confident. According to my digit ratios I was exposed to very high testosterone levels while I was developing as my ring finger is almost an inch longer than my index finger.

A young woman who has struggled with depression, eating disorders, and who dislikes gendered stereotypes and makeup. Conclusion: trans, must immediately undergo radical body modifications.

Some choice replies:

No one asks about her getting treatment for depression, or eating disorders. No one talks about how it’s possible to be a masculine woman, how it’s possible to prefer men’s clothing and no makeup even as a woman.

This is the state of many online transgendee communities. People, often adults, willing to give medical advice, telling teenagers and children that they should start this medical treatment as soon as possible, and that the consequences of not doing so is losing money, not being beautiful, having difficulties finding friends and partners. Telling them that hormones are magic pills. Never telling anyone to wait, to question their motives, to listen to their parents. It’s very frightening.

 

“At least get on blockers. At the very least! You’ll regret waiting further”

We have seen previously here on Transgender reality that there is a lot of pressure to start taking either hormone blockers or hormones for young people who think they might be transgender. Sometimes it’s supposed to be a sort of diagnostic tool, the thought being that if you feel better on the hormones of the opposite sex, that means you are transgender. Often, the decision to start blockers or hormones is presented as something you need to do as soon as possible, even if you aren’t sure if it’s the right thing, even if you’re just 13 years old and confused. Going through natural puberty is framed as “watching your body get ruined”.

Kids going to reddit and the many large transgender subreddits there get presented with this over and over again. You need to start hormones now or you will never pass! Testosterone is ruining your body! It doesn’t take much for them to internalize this and start obsessing, as we have seen previously.

“Anything I can do?” asks a 16 year old, and gets told by several commenters to “get HRT asap”:

“Can I pass?” asks another 16 year old, and again HRT comes up several times:

“What do I have to work with here?” asks a 14 year old. The second comment mentions hormones:

Other commenters talks about how it’s possible to get androgen blockers online:

“Get blockers”:

Note that this kid has not even seen a therapist yet, and still people are egging him on to get hormones.

“Is transitioning early really worth it?” asks a 15 year old. The commenters start talking about HRT straight away:

“Stop the damage of testosterone on your body”:

Do it now do it now do it now, you’ll regret it if you don’t:

This kid, who found out he’s trans less than a month before and has not talked to a therapist or even told his parents, wonders how hard he should “push for hrt”. The answer: very hard:

This 19 year old wonders if he could pass. This exchange is very typical:

In a nutshell, he’s told to get on HRT as soon as possible. He mentions feeling stressed out because he’s not even sure he wants to transition, but worries that “I don’t have enough time to decide”. So obviously, the answer is to “start an anti androgen”. His concerns about fertility are handwaved away. Can’t worry about fertility when the more important thing is to become as pretty as possible!

This premise is most often left unspoken, but if you pay attention it is very pervasive. Passing as a woman isn’t enough, the desire to be an attractive, beautiful, sexy woman is very deep among many would-be transitioners. When you take this into consideration, the preoccupation with getting people on hormones in their early teens makes more sense. Here are just a few examples of this sentiment:

This is a recipe for disaster. Young teens go into these communities with problems that are incredibly typical, like feelings of not fitting in with peers, or liking clothing or activities that are seen as being “for” the opposite sex. They are told that even questioning their gender means that they are trans, and to get on puberty blockers or hormones as soon as possible. Again and again, the idea that taking one’s life is a natural and inevitable consequence of not being able to get these medications is reinforced.

What happens next?

Yeah. That post was written by Josh “Leelah” Alcorn, who committed suicide later that year.

“The trans test”: self-medicating in the trans community

We have seen in previous posts that there is a push to “diagnose” people who question their gender as transgender, and there is a pervasive narrative that the only way to treat this condition is through transitioning. In the majority of cases, this means taking hormones: For females, testosterone; for males, some type of testosterone blocker plus estrogen. This is often referred to as “HRT”, “hormone replacement therapy”. For young people who have not finished puberty, it can also mean to take drugs that block their body’s natural hormones, so-called “blockers”.

In many online trans communities, starting to take hormones is seen as a way to decide whether you are transgender or not. The idea is that if you are really transgender, taking hormones should make you feel better. If you are not, it should presumably make you feel worse, or the same as before.

In this post, a 17 year old asks for advice regarding taking hormones, mentioning this idea of the “trial period”.

Im 17 pre-everything possible mtf.I have heard that for a lot of people hormones were the factor that made them sure of their gender identity and was wondering if a short-term small dose trial period of hrt for confused and questioning people was at all common practice. Im a minor so i still need parental approval but would a doctor even give me a referral?

The very first commenter shares their experiences, saying “I did HRT as a kind of confirmation”. Notice how the commenter admits to lying to their health care provider in order to get a prescription.

There is discussion about which effects of HRT are permanent and which are reversible. The original poster, who is 17 years old and not even sure he is transgender, shrugs away the possibility of permanent infertility.

He gets encouraged to “do it” by another commenter, who also gives specific advice on which medication to take.

More discussion of the “trans test” in this post, where a commenter admits that sometimes the commitment to do something about a condition can trigger a placebo effect. However, in the same post they claim that the effects from estrogen couldn’t have been placebo because they “surprise[d] me every single time i injected”.

This commenter attributes a sudden liking of taking care of their hair and skin and being able to “feel colors” to hormones:

More praise for hormones:

We see the idea rehashed again and again that taking HRT is a way of confirming your trans-ness, together with the constant praise of how great hormones can make you feel. In fact, the people in these communities are often quite quick to suggest hormones to young questioners.

This poster asks: “am I trans?”

I’m a 17 year old gay human of the male variety. That is, I’ve got a schlong. And that’s where my maleness stops. My behaviour as a child could be seen as a gender identity issue, or just plain old gayness. I used to play with my sister’s toys and dress up in her clothes. I’ve never identified with guys, I hate most male related activities. (Sports, cars, etc.) Through my preteen years I constantly dressed up, always assuming female roles in play. As a teenager, I have dressed in female clothes a few times, and it felt much more natural to me. I’m fairly “straight acting” in that I don’t flap about much when I talk and I’m not too sassy, I’m not like the gay stereotype. Around close friends however I am extremely flamboyant. Anyway, back to the question, am I trans? Reasons why I think I am: •I feel more comfortable in female clothes. •When I visualise my future, I see myself as a female. •I feel like I identify more with females.

Reasons why I don’t think I’m trans: •I don’t have the stereotypical hatred for my male body, sure I have had issues withwith self confidence etc but I’ve never felt like my junk was alien. •These feelings don’t overwhelm my brain. They’re subtle, niggling at the back of my mind.

This is a gay male who is extremely preoccupied with stereotypical gender roles. What do people suggest to him?

Try hormones!

Try hormones!

The problem with using any kind of medication as a diagnostic tool is that there is no way of knowing how much of the effect is due to placebo. And especially problematic is the tendency for online trans communities to advice people to start taking hormones completely on their own, without medical supervision. Since you usually can’t “just try” prescription medications, they give each other advice on how to circumvent the medical practitioners and obtain the medications on their own.

Watch as they tell a suicidal 15 year old how to obtain hormones without his parents knowledge and without medical supervision:

They tell him to omit mentioning his suicidal thoughts to counselors:

When a 14 year old posts wanting advice on becoming more feminine, this is the advice they get:

(note to readers: we are not linking directly to this post to protect the poster’s privacy).

“If you really want them there are ways of getting them”:

They get told they’ll pass once they start “DIY” (do it yourself) hormones:

In another post, the same kid gets told to “DIY secretly”, by befriending an adult transgender person in their area. 

A fourteen year old kid befriending adults for favors. What could  possibly go wrong? Taking prescription medication without medical supervision, what could possibly happen?

HRT is seen as not only necessary treatment for transgender feelings, but it is also a diagnostic tool, and one that people are encouraged to try out on their own. What happens when HRT does not make someone feel better though?  Does that mean the person wasn’t really trans?

This poster reports feeling worse since they started taking hormones:

Before I started I felt dysphoria but now it’s in overdrive. 

Apparently this is normal according to the replies they get. “The further you get in your transition the more dysphoria you feel”.

It gets harder before it gets easier:

Another poster who feels worse after starting HRT

Feeling like total shit after starting HRT 

I feel almost as bad as ever:

I’m a couple of months into HRT, and I’m feeling almost worse than I did before I started. I look terrible, I hate everything about myself. People keep telling me that I look good, or that they love my eyes, or my hair, or whatever the fuck else, and I don’t believe them, and not believing them makes me feel worse than if they said nothing.

It gets better, right? I’ll stop crying and snapping at my friends? I’ll feel good about myself maybe at some point?

At no point does anyone suggest to any of these posters that maybe they are actually not trans and that maybe HRT is the wrong choice for them. It’s always “wait”, “try more”, “change your dose”, “hang in there”.

This is the huge problem with using a medication as a diagnostic tool without medical supervision, and it’s a recipe for disaster. First you create a narrative where any sort of questioning of your feelings about gender roles or your body means that you are trans. Then you plant the idea that being trans is something that needs a specific type of medical treatment, and you actively encourage people to experiment with this medical treatment to “see if it’s right for them”. If you’re truly trans it will make you feel awesome! Then when people feel worse instead of better, suddenly that’s not proof of not being trans at all, it’s just proof that they need to take HRT longer or adjust their dose.