The words Asktransgender commenters don’t want teens to see

Several times on this blog, we have seen how young teenagers who are confused about their identities get advice from adults on places like reddit.

Often they get advice that is very inappropriate, like advice on how to obtain prescription medications illegally, or advice on how to hide said medications from parents. They are urged to do this as soon as possible. It can take only weeks for a teen to go from confused about their identity to feeling like they absolutely need these hormones. Sometimes adults suggest completely inappropriate courses of action like in this post where a 42 year old offers a teen to come to his house and get “shots”.

Today we are going to take a brief look at what kind of advice is not allowed on online transgender forums. A 14 year old posts in AskTransgender, asking “Is this real?”

Hey guys, So, currently I identify as MtF. However, I keep thinking that I may not actually be, or that I am exaggerating, or that I simply want to be, so to not be “common”, or to be special/unique. I know it sounds silly, but I have OCPD, so these thoughts are constant 24/7, and I get very worried that I may not be trans. When I see a pretty girl, I wish I could look like her, not just be with her, and ever since I was a kid, I would often play online as a girl, and would Identify well with the character (not sure if relevant). It is getting annoying. I am 14 years old, and I don’t think I can get to a gender therapist soon. I don’t know what to do or think, as I have exaggerated “symptoms” before, and I also think I am a hypocondriac (not saying trans is an illness) which has lead me to believe I am gravely sick before, even though I am not, and I worry that this is what my mind is doing to me, any help?

There is a removed comment:

Deleted comment with replies

What did the deleted comment say? Must have been pretty bad, judging by the aggressive reactions, right? Luckily, since one of the replies mentions the username who made the deleted comment, it’s possible to find out. Clicking on the username of “pyre105” reveals the following comment:

“Allow yourself to grow up as who you are”

So that was the comment, downvoted by other posters to -1, and then deleted. “Allow yourself to grow up as you are, away from labels and expectations. There’s really minimal difference between boys and girls in terms of personality, behavior, things we like, etc. Identifying with a girl character doesn’t make you a girl.”

These words  were so offensive that the  other commenters tell the author to “get the HELL away”, and that what they are doing is harmful, and then the comment is deleted. These are the words the posters on AskTransgender do not want 14 year old kids to read.

Meanwhile, comments urging them to obtain medications illegally, hide them from their parents, and go to the houses of 42 year old men, are not deleted. Food for thought for parents whose children are questioning their identities. Be extremely skeptical of the advice they are getting online.

“We tried to make this kid be a boy”

In an article about a child who wants to be a boy, the parents talk about how the child “began taking on names commonly used for boys during playtime and displayed ‘male role modeling’.” They talk about how the child was happy when allowed to wear “boy clothes”. They talk about taking their child to a pediatrician and then to a psychologist.

Their pediatrician recommended visiting with a child psychologist who, after a three-hour evaluation, determined the child was gender variant. The psychologist explained it could be a phase or the child could later affirm a male identity — either way, she recommended that Ann support him by letting him play and dress as he wanted.

Then two years later:

When Ben turned 7, the child psychologist formally determined Ben was transgender.

This is eyebrow-raising (or should be), because according to research, most children who are “gender dysphoric” go on to become regular adults satisfied with their biological sex. From the WPATH  (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) guidelines: (note: link goes to a pdf file)

most cases of childhood gender dsyphoria do not persist into adulthood

and,

Gender variance in childhood is normal. Risks of a GI-Childhood diagnosis include: Stigmatizing children with a diagnostic label when there is no disorder; diagnosis can become iatrogenic, instilling a sense in the child that “there is something wrong with me”; and a poor predictive value – 80% of children diagnosed with GID do not continue to have GID of adolescence or adulthood.

4 out of 5 children who experience gender identity disorder do not persist. They grow up to become well-functioning adults. Often, they grow up to be gay or lesbian. Furthermore, as the WPATH document points out, giving children a diagnostic label can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What is even more worrying is that so often these diagnoses are given to children that have been heavily policed by their parents regarding how they are allowed to express themselves. This story of a conservatively religious parent is a good example:

For Shappley and her family, it all began with a hair bow.

“I want a bow like Daisy,” her then-three-year-old son Joseph Paul begged of her. Shappley knew the big red bow, ponytails and princess dresses were things almost every little girl wished for. However, these weren’t for a daughter — Shappley reminded herself these were the requests of her son.

So a child with a penis asks for a hair bow. Instead of just letting the child wear a hair bow and not making a huge deal out of it, the parents tell him he can’t have them because they are for girls. They make him do “boy stuff”:

His desire to dress in little girl’s clothes is a secret Shappley has kept from the outside world since Joseph was just a toddler. As an infant, she put him in blue clothes. As a toddler, she made him do what shes says is ‘typical boy stuff,’ like fishing, playing football with his siblings and throwing little boy’s birthday parties.

“We tried to make this kid be a boy,” said Shappley. Still, Joseph kept seeking out what the girls had and, by the age of three, he was telling everyone he was a girl.

Of course the kid is telling people he’s a girl! You’ve been telling him that the thing he wants, that his female peers have, are only for girls. Why wouldn’t he try to get access to the pretty bows by saying he’s a girl? Three year old children do typically not have a good understanding of what it means to be a boy or a girl, most commonly understanding the terms by using stereotypes.

Shappley sought out more help, turning to pastors and her faith. Her hope was that her young boy would act like one.

The mother is hoping her child will “act like a boy”. What do  boys act like? Why does this child have to act in a certain way?

“So Christians are not gay, OK, that’s the mindset that I had.”

Having a gay child would of course be difficult for a person belonging to a religion in which being gay is seen as wrong. And children who strongly identify with the opposite sex in childhood do often grow into homosexual adults. This mother will now have a straight daughter.

Parents and children like these are now wildly popular in the news, there’s hardly a week or even a day without a story like this, a documentary, a reality show. How easy will it be for these children to change their minds, as 4 out of 5 of them will, statistically? How easy is it to change your mind about being the opposite sex when your parents have campaigned for your right to use the opposite bathroom and changing room at school? When your parents have spent money to sue the school district? When your entire family makes money and is famous from your transness?

 

“I hide my meds in my saxophone case” – self medding advice to minors

On reddit, a website where kids as young as 13 are allowed, and many are even younger, anonymous people, often adults, give minors tips on how to obtain prescription-only medication illegally, and hide it from their parents.

In this post, a 15 year old asks for advice, saying that “I have came out to my mom and she does not support me and thinks I should just stay how I was born.”

“estradiol is pretty cheap”

“Estradiol is pretty cheap,” chimes in a 44 year old adult, and provides a link to various online pharmacies where this medication can be bought. Estradiol is a medication that can increase your risk of blood clots, stroke, or heart attack, especially if you have diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol or triglycerides, if you smoke, or if you are overweight. It is also recommended to get blood tests and physical check-ups while taking this medication, none of which a 15 year old would necessarily have access to.

In this post, reddit users are giving tips to minors on how to hide from their parents that they are taking DIY hormones (“do it yourself”, meaning without a prescription) (archived post)

tips for minors who wish to take prescription medications behind their parents’ backs

The advice comes complete with dosage advice.

In this post, a 16 year old is uncertain about starting hormones:

I am 16 and not getting any younger. I would rather get hormones sooner than later if I’m going to get them at all, and I don’t feel equipped to make that decision at 16. However, I am worried that I won’t be able to make the decision until post-puberty, which would be disadvantageous.

What is the way out of this dilemma?

One of the replies is this:

“Why would you not be equipped to make that decision at 16?” this poster asks, and continues:

“It’s almost completely certain you won’t regret it”

Another poster chimes in:

“you’ll pass worse”

Finally, the poster is convinced:

“I’m going to go bother some people about AAs”

The commenters have successfully convinced this young teen to get anti-androgens. The most common one is spirolactone, which can have side effects like  uneven heart rate, severe skin reactions, numbness, muscle weakness, vomiting, shallow breathing and confusion.

“I would not be sad to see his male body go away”

A parent posts to r/asktransgender for advice regarding her young son. The son is four years old.

My 4 year old son has for awhile been saying he’s a girl. We have corrected him, just thinking he’s confused (he learned to speak late) but lately he’s been saying he wants to grow up and be a princess, and be pretty like mommy, he’s even said he would wear dresses, he loves to play apps on his tablet that involve makeup and hair styling, he likes to show us his “boobs”…

Please note.. I have stopped correcting him. Because of our enlightenment on this issue and the education that’s available, I understand the possibility for all my children to question everything about their identity, and I just want them to be who they are so they can do what they are supposed to do in this world.

My question is: is it too early for him to intrinsically know he is a girl? Not in the sexual sense, of course he’s not a sexual being yet, but in terms of gender? And if he could already know, how do I protect him yet nurture him?

What is a parent to make of this behavior? Well, how about asking the kid why he would like to be a girl? Is it because he thinks only girls can be pretty and wear dresses? Kids very often have this naive view of the world. She does not seem to have asked him this, and the suggestion to do so does not come up. However, the commenters advise her to let the kid wear whatever clothes he wants, which is very good advice. Just let him do his thing, several commenters say, he has years ahead of him to figure things out. For most kids, insisting they are the other sex is a phase, and the majority grow out of it and come to be comfortable with their bodies. And for a concerned parent, that should be great news, right? After all, the medical treatments for transgender people are nothing to take lightly; they can have serious side effects.

This mom however, seems very eager to have a transgender child, and she seems very sure that he really is fundamentally different from his brothers:

Many little boys who are effeminate in childhood end up being gay men as adults. That is apparently not an option this mom has considered.

She mentions several times how she dreamed that he was a girl when she was pregnant with him.

“I wouldn’t be sad to see his male body go away“. That is a deeply disturbing statement, and no one calls her out on it.

She talks about wanting to make “transgender art”.

She even has a media strategy ready:

The commenters praise her for being such an understanding and good parent, and the media thing is brought up again:

Just a month later, the mom posts an update. Note that both posts are to r/asktransgender. She does not ask for advice on any of reddit’s parenting forums. If she did, she might have found support in other parents of children who do not conform to gender roles, and she might realize that this type of behavior is actually pretty common with young kids.

The reddit community was so helpful to me. I thought I should update our story, and frankly I need support…

My son has been quoted as saying “the words that come out of my mouth talk about fire trucks. But I really want long hair with big pink bows in it”

He was previously ok with getting his hair cut. We took him yesterday to get a haircut and he begged the stylist to make him look like mommy.

My MIL took him shoe shopping. He requested in the car on the way there he wanted “dancing shoes”. At kohls he picked out (to everyone’s horror) a pair of pink shoes studded with jewels. (I was not present so he did not get the shoes)

He’s asked me not to cut his hair off ever again.

I’m ok with all of it. Excited to help him. He said he wants be called a girl.

Why does the kid seem to think there is something wrong with talking about fire trucks AND having long hair? The incident with the shoes is a clue here. He’s being told that he can’t have pink “dancing shoes”, presumably because he’s a boy. This is unfortunately very typical, adults enforcing rigid gender roles on their children. Of COURSE boys should be able to wear pink dancing shoes. It seems to us that what this mom needs is people who support her and her son in saying “no” to gender roles and assuring him that it’s okay to be different.

Again she seems to have already made up her mind about the kid. “I just know something is different”.

Again she brings up dreaming that her son was a girl:

Commenters are again falling over themselves to tell her what a great parent she is. Some of the commenters recommend books and blogs, all of them are about specifically transgender children. No one posts links to books or blogs about gay children or non-transgender children who do not conform to gender roles. We are witnessing the “funnel effect” again in the online transgender community. Most children who act like this kid grow up to be adults at peace with their bodies. Some do not, but this mom is seeking out only the stories of those kids. And again, it is striking just how much she seems to want her child to be transgender. “I would not be sad to see his male body go away”, she says. Would she trade a kid with a healthy male body for a child who gives up their fertility and risks serious side effects from puberty blockers and hormone treatments?